Author Topic: Just what is "middle class"? (Read 4882 times)

MamaMia · « **on:** January 17, 2007, 03:37:12 PM »

I am wondering why the press/media continues to portray Kate Middleton as "middle class". I understand that she is a "commoner", but I don't see how her family can be classified as middle class when her parents bought her a 800,000 pound house in Chelsea, London, and are able to support her while she doesn't work ...

The ability to do those things does not, in my opinion, classify her as middle class.

Royalphile · « **Reply #1 on:** January 17, 2007, 03:39:22 PM »

they classify her as "upper middle crust", entirely another thing

bb · « **Reply #2 on:** January 17, 2007, 03:51:23 PM »

in america she isn't anywhere near middle-class. here it is more defined as merely a reasonable financial safety net; that you won't starve if you miss a paycheck. i'm guessing that europe has a different class system that distinguishes between old and new money. Kate's parents are new money and that's' why she's considered middle-class, but to me, an american, giving her that label and position is insulting and pretenious to all of us with blue collars.

Nighthawk · « **Reply #3 on:** January 17, 2007, 03:53:34 PM »

In America she would be considered Rich

Gems · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2007, 06:24:43 PM »

Kate is middle class because of family history, you can't become middle class by having money, and you can't go from middle class to working class by not having money. It's not about that. Kate is not new money as far as I know.

Pri · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2007, 06:27:55 PM »

I think what makes Kate middle class is that she isn't super wealthy. We don't know her exactly how much her parents make and how much their net-worth is, but her apartment in London isn't much of a big deal. Don't treat it as an apartment they bought specifically for her--say it's a second home which many people have. Although, it make not be nearly $1.6 million. Also, I think middle-class is a huge class is can included anyone from just above poverty line--making a decent living and those who aren't--for lack a better word--superwealthy? Superwealthy--I don't even know how to define that--with my minimal experience in private banking (and I do mean minimal) I'd say anywhere from $20 to $30 million plus additional investments. Now, Kate's family obviously is considered rich but I don't know if they actually have 15 million pounds--in the bank plus investments. I do agree that when the press says she is middle class, it is misleading. She definitely upper-middle class, a term that very common in the U.S.--I don't know how common it is in the U.K.

I'm also unsure as to how history, her not being part of aristocracy plays into her being middle class--wouldn't that just make her common? Considering, you can a large sum of money and not be part of aristocracy.

Gems · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2007, 06:31:55 PM »

It has nothing to do with how much money you have as far a I know it's about social roots. If you took away the Queen's money it would not make her a lower class, for example. I am wayyyyyy above any poverty line, but I am not what you would call middle class

hippie_cyndi · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2007, 06:46:13 PM »

the Middletons are considered 'Middle Class' according 2 sociologist definition of CLASS..British in particular:

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What is Class?
Sociologists define social class as the grouping of people by occupations. Doctors and lawyers and university teachers are given more status than unskilled labourers. The different positions represent different levels of power, influence and money.

The British society is often considered to be divided into three main groups of
classes - the Upper Class, the Middle Class, and the Lower or Working Class. This is known as the Class system

eventhou MULTICULTURALISM & changing economy kinda eroded the old rigid class system....but regardless....no matter how much money the Midds have...they will be considered Middle Class....they are new money...no social/political connection...no inherited aristocratic title & buying one wouldn't count!

pretty easy explanation of it can be found HERE

Nighthawk · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2007, 06:59:07 PM »

thank you hippie_cyndi :flowers:

serene grace · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2007, 07:14:29 PM »

thank you hippe cyndi. good link. :flowers:

Quote from: hippie_cyndi on January 17, 2007, 06:46:13 PM

the Middletons are considered 'Middle Class' according 2 sociologist definition of CLASS..British in particular:

regardless....no matter how much money the Midds have...they will be considered Middle Class....they are new money...no social/political connection...no inherited aristocratic title & buying one wouldn't count!

pretty easy explanation of it can be found HERE

Pri · « **Reply #10 on:** January 17, 2007, 07:41:27 PM »

I was strictly talking about monetary terms. The Queen could be a beggar and she would be part of the lower class-- monetarily. Being the woman she is--with all the grace, accomplishments, good nature she has--obviously she has all the class in the world. Clearly!! I thought the fact I was talking sheer financial status was understood--guess not! :mellow:

Jayne · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17, 2007, 08:58:53 PM »

Like someone said earlier, in America money defines your social status not what class you great grandfather was...According to American standards, Kate is no way a "middle class" girl. She is an upper class, wealthy girl. No middleclass family can afford to buy their daughter a 800,000 pound flat, provide for her AFTER 2 yrs of graduation, pay for lavish vacations etc.

agentblueberry · « **Reply #12 on:** January 17, 2007, 09:01:58 PM »

I understood, but money and social class doesn't matter, to me it's her attitude and her aura that put her on the lower end of the class scale in my opinion.

Gems · « **Reply #13 on:** January 17, 2007, 09:09:13 PM »

Quote from: Jayne on January 17, 2007, 08:58:53 PM

Like someone said earlier, in America money defines your social status not what class you great grandfather was...According to American standards, Kate is no way a "middle class" girl. She is an upper class, wealthy girl. No middleclass family can afford to buy their daughter a 800,000 pound flat, provide for her AFTER 2 yrs of graduation, pay for lavish vacations etc.

:pardon: But we are talking about England. It's a very old place and most of it's foundations are still there, such as the three classes. You can only marry up, you can't move up because you're rich. Weather or not that is right is another matter, but if richness is class in America, then what's the excuse for Britney?

And I agree that being classy has nothing to do with money or social status.

serene grace · « **Reply #14 on:** January 17, 2007, 09:36:50 PM »

Posh , Beckham and Madonna have more money than some countries and much more than Kate's parents. Are they Upper class in the UK, They are rich, wealthy but they are not upper class in the UK. Kate in the US would be a rich girl who's parents could buy her way into some of the higHer social sets. She would have money , she could possibly hang out with Lindsay Lohan and others at the nightclubs where rich hollywood starlets go. Her parents could buy a home in a Upper Class neighborhood and pay fees for a Country Club and to hang out with the weallthy and go on vacations with the wealthy. Similar to what the Middletons do now in the UK. Still in the UK Kate is a middle class girl, dating a Prince. The Royals and Aristocrats see Kate as a commoner, which she is. If William doesn't marry her, I think she might pursue an Aristocrat, the impression in the press is that Mrs. Middleton seems to crave a title. :Royal: ( Richard Branson was made a Sir by the Queen, does the Sir title transfer to his children,... was David Beckham made a Sir yet...???)

Pri · « **Reply #15 on:** January 17, 2007, 09:45:15 PM »

Well--no one asked for a definition in British terms or American terms. I defined it in strictly considering finance and only that. I'd say Gems how you define socioeconomic class is different than most people. In a really good way! I'm pleasantly surprised!
However, even in England there is mention of how much money you make and where that puts you on the economic spectrum. I also think class and money shouldn't matter--I think it kinda breeds elistist thinking--something I'm really not into-- and I tend not to pay too much attention to it.
You bring up the Britney Spears, she is wealthy and in the Upper Class in America and her would be in the Upper Class in the U.K--without the aristocracy variable. I'm talking just money. Does she ooze class---HELL NO!!! SHE'S A BIG, GROSS

! But, she has a lot of money. She is part of the upper class, and is the classic definition of the opposite of class.

I could be missing something---what does a weathy person in the U.K need to be Upper Class? If they already have the money? Is it aristocratic ties? I think what I am missing is that--you cannot separate the two?!! I think that's what I'm missing--Sorry I'm just trying to understand!

Gems · « **Reply #16 on:** January 17, 2007, 09:51:00 PM »

Quote from: Pri on January 17, 2007, 09:45:15 PM

I'd say Gems how you define socioeconomic class is different than most people. In a really good way! I'm pleasantly surprised!

:pardon: Well I'm not American, it's how most people I know and the media define it.

Quote

Well--no one asked for a definition in British terms or American terms.

I understood, I was just relating it to Kate.

Quote

However, even in England there is mention of how much money you make and where that puts you on the economic spectrum.

But that's not about class, it's about success and stupid people trying to out do eachother.

Quote

You bring up the Britney Spears, she is wealthy and in the Upper Class in America and her would be in the Upper Class in the U.K--without the aristocracy variable. I'm talking just money.

In England she is working class, and lower working class at that. Even with the money and fame, she'd just be a lower-working class girl who got lucky with some record.

serene grace · « **Reply #17 on:** January 17, 2007, 09:53:17 PM »

Look at Hippie Cindi's link...

Countessa · « **Reply #18 on:** January 17, 2007, 09:54:19 PM »

Kate is not middle class. Her parents sent her to a boarding school for 25,000 pounds a year. In the US I don't know of any prep school or private school that costs that much. Any parents with that kind of money to spend before their kid gets out of grade school are very wealthy. That amount of money is only familiar when you get to college. I guess it is different in the UK. Kate is rich and that's how she lives. That's her business but I don't relate to her because of how lives just like I don't relate to Paris Hilton or that whole gang.

Gems · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2007, 09:57:30 PM »

Quote from: serene grace on January 17, 2007, 09:53:17 PM

Look at Hippie Cindi's link...

If that was for me, I did, but I wasn't talking about it from that specific angle, I was talking from having lived amongst it and knowing people from all three areas. I don't know which part of my post didn't reflect that.

serene grace · « **Reply #20 on:** January 17, 2007, 10:08:10 PM »

Not necessarily for anyone just for trying to figure out how the Brits view social status. Money comes and goes for some families , social stature(bloodlines,titles,blood-ties) remains. Kate is a commoner.

dizzylizzy13 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 17, 2007, 10:08:42 PM »

Actually Countessa, I think the 25,000. pounds is inaccurate -- according to the 2006 Tatler Schools Guide, the boarding fees at Marlborough were 7,720. pounds which is about $ 14,000. US dollars ... by comparison, there are several US boarding schools that cost waaay more ... Hockaday in Dallas, for example, charges $ 36,000. for boarders.

Gems · « **Reply #22 on:** January 17, 2007, 10:09:26 PM »

Well, in my expirience Brits view it like I do.

serene grace · « **Reply #23 on:** January 17, 2007, 10:14:57 PM »

I should have said Aristocrats and Royals, view status as bloodlines. But none of it matters if Wiliam loves Kate. I don't think it matters today. New money can sometimes be considered vulgar to those old establishment types, unless they need the money sometimes. :flowers:

Countessa · « **Reply #24 on:** January 17, 2007, 10:39:11 PM »

Kate may be a commoner but she's a rich commoner as are parents who can afford to send their children to boarding schools whether they be $7,000 or $36,000 a year and then top that off by sending them to a top university like SA. Middle class people can't afford that for even one child in either the US or the UK. Their kids go to public school and receive grants, scholarships and have to work their way through college if they can afford to go at all.